Bring back warranty offerings!

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1390

Bring back warranty offerings!

1390 points posted to Linux, Service and Support by johnnyk 06/04/07

edit: Warranties are back for Ubuntu systems. Please do not continue to promote this article.

byco 06/04/07	Kinda makes me wish I hadn't ordered a Dell.
captaintux 06/04/07	On Friday, my laptop died. It was an Acer. The screen was damaged. Replacement cost of cracked screen is more than halfway to the cost of a new laptop. So I decide I will support the new Ubuntu Dell Laptops. I go online to Dell's Website and go to the Ubuntu page. I choose the E1505n. I upgrade to a GB of Ram, I get the Nvidia 256 MB graphics card, I get the DVD burner optical drive. So far so good. I am happy with the default processor and the screen. Now, another driving factor is that Dell has the nifty cool complete care (tm) plan. With this bad boy, a random brick can fly through the air, hit my laptop, shatter it to threads, and Dell will cover it. Think of it more as an insurance plan than a service plan. I have a friend with 3 kids who has had to take advantage of it not once, but twice. Both times Dell took care of them no questions asked. Now, the first time the Dell laptop had XP on it...the second time..gentoo. Still, no problems here. So, I decide to get it....just in case I get burned twice. On June 2, I get an email telling me my order has been acknowledged and I will get another email shortly giving me a order number (I also paid for next day shipping). Well, the rest of June 2 and all of June 3 goes by. No new email. I check my spam folder...nada...just the usual assortment of male enhancement and refi deals. So on June 4 I call Dell. They can see no order...they can see they debited my account...but no order. Hmmm...confusing. Very sorry, sir. Let me talk to my supervisor, please hold. She has no explanation for the lost order, but she will reprocess the order and I will get my next day shipping for free since I lost time. YAY! But wait! When we "build" my Dell, there is no longer a Complete Care (tm) plan for Ubuntu. She puts me on hold. She find out that my order was bumped out since they changed the policy on offering Complete Care (tm) on Ubuntu Dells. Why? She puts me on hold. Now comes the fun. "Sir, Ubuntu is a third party software and applications come from sources not from Dell." "Vista is a product of Dell?" "No sir, but we have a relationship with MS." "So you do not have a relationship with Canonical, the commercial company that sponsors Ubuntu?" "Hold.........Yes we do, but the software for other things comes from third parties." "So what if I buy a game for a Vista laptop from Best Buy? As that is a third party software..does that invalidate a Complete Care (tm) policy?" "No, sir." "What if I download an update from Microsoft to keep my Vista Current, how does that differ from an update from Ubuntu other than the fact the Ubuntu update actually helps my system?" "I do not know sir. See, sir, Linux comes from all over the place and as such cannot be supported." "I believe Redhat and even Microsoft differ with that opinion. I am not looking for support, that is another option I can click on another screen in your website. I am looking for protection from bricks. The laws of physics do not differ from one OS to the other...do they?" "No Sir." "Talking to your superior will not help my cause, do you have the phone number and email address of an executive do you?" She gave it to me. I wrote an email. I expressed my concerns politely and professionally and am awaiting a response. Cheers Patrick L Green
captaintux 06/04/07	Complete Care (tm) is a hardware warranty. Is Dell telling me they are afraid the laws of physics will have a greater impact on a Ubuntu laptop? The mass of the object striking the Dell is the same regardless of the OS. Heck, if you run Ubuntu instead of Vista, you are far less likely to accidentally throw your laptop into a brick wall.
johnnyk 06/04/07	@captaintux Could you share with us the executive's contact info? I'm sure other people would like to be heard.
captaintux 06/04/07	johnyk, I am giving him 24 hours to respond to me. I am hoping that this can be resolved without him receiving a deluge of calls. However, if by the end of the workday Tuesday, I do not have a reply, I am releasing his name, email, and extension here, the Ubuntu forums, and a few other mail lists and forums that have taken interest in my issue. If he responds positively, then I will posy his information so we can all pat him on the back. So keep an eye on this thread Tuesday evening for the continuing saga of Patrick Green and the quest for protection from falling objects. ;)
wolfwings 06/05/07	This is crazy. I started saving up money specifically to buy a Dell laptop with Ubuntu pre-installed because of the CompleteCare plan, in fact I was planning to buy the best coverage I could with in-home repair service after dealing with the on-going fiasco of HP's concept of notebook repair requiring me to constantly ship them my notebook every time anything fails. I was planning to buy one of the Ubuntu versions to show my support, and to avoid dealing with Vista or XP since I would have just replaced it all with some version of Linux regardless. Suddenly, Linux laptops cannot get hardware warranty coverage? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
badger 06/05/07	This is truly disgusting. At this point I don't care to even try to buy a Dellbuntu system, as it looks like Dell is giving nothing but lip-service to Linux, and ultimately still bending over for microsoft.
captaintux 06/05/07	Here is the response I got. "Mr. Green, Thank you for your note and a chance to solve this issue. I am about to get on an airplane, but will get your issue to our executive resolution team. They should be able to resolve. If you are not satisfied, please do not hesitate to contact me again. Thank you for your business. Todd Bartee" I checks Mr Bartee's email. He is gone till the 15th. I will give them till the end of the day to call me back. Then I will go into action and as soon as I have a new contact5, you all have a new contact. I got hot potatoed and I am uncool with that. Before I decided being a dad was more important to me, I was a VP of sales and marketing for a telco. I have owned a computer store, a consultancy firm, and a comic book shop as well. I did not fall off the turnip truck and they have no idea how hot this potato is about to get. Ubuntu has been kind enough to forward my issue to Cannonical and the blogging and press releases will soon begin. The pressure will start gentle, then comes the migraine. Don't pass me off like a cheap whore.
johnnyk 06/05/07	@captiantux Make sure you mention this page to whoever you contact in the coming days. The comments on here really give a good overview of what people think about this.
svartalf 06/05/07	@captaintux - It's on Slashdot, now. It's about to become a really hot potato. I don't consider this to be an acceptable thing, really. The laws of physics do NOT change just because an OS is put on the machine.
jblack 06/05/07	Gentlemen, please cut them a break. Dell is a large company and it's going to take them some time to get everything in order. You should expect there to be some kinks in the pipeline as they get thousands of employees on board. I'm sure that they'll sort this out soon. Breathing fire and brimstone and ruining vacations is a really good way to convince them that we're not worth selling to as a group. That would be bad for myself and others, as we plan on purchasing ubuntu machines from them in the future as well. We won't be able to do so if you convince them that they don't want our money. Rome wasn't rebuilt in a day. Please show some patience and restraint.
nick-giudici 06/05/07	I'm a developer for the colorado.gov website and we currently have our development staff on Macs. We were thinking about e-baying our Macs and moving to dellbuntu laptops, mostly for the support. When one of our Dell hard drives died in the morning we had a new one on our desk when we got back from lunch. With our macs, they're usually gone for at least a week, which for a business is unacceptable. Hopefully, they will get their act together soon but until ubuntu gets the same hardware and software support from dell that windows does we probably won't be able to upgrade.
slashdotted 06/05/07	Stop crying and support a vendor who cares about your niche OS then, or just download and install it yourself ffs. And next time you decide to write a "wow...I was shocked at this turn of events" narrative, I recommend being a bit more original.
ixoyeboy 06/05/07	I agree with jblack. Give 'em some time before raining down on them. Big companies just can't move that fast, even if they want to - I know, I work for one of the biggest. So just don't burn the bridge before they have a chance to realize they need to cross it.
cptdondo 06/05/07	Long ago I bought a Toshiba laptop. The F1 and F2 keys quit working. Toshiba refused to warranty the laptop because I had linux installed - in spite of having one of those "run it over with a truck" warranties. Guess what? I haven't bought a Toshiba since. It's past time for companies like Dell to stop treating linux users like crap. They're in the hardware business. Sell hardware the way the customer wants. If some exec somewhere has a hard time with that simple concept, then Dell needs some new execs who understand customer service. In other words, linux is an OS just like any other. OK, you can offer limited OS support; that's not OK but we'll accept it. But refuse to offer a warranty hardware failures? That's ridiculous, and nothing short of stupid.
jmxz 06/05/07	jblack, ixoyeboy, and anyone else saying: "give them more time" Uh - they've been moving *BACKWARDS* in their Notebook & Desktop Linux support since 2000. For those unaware of Dell's history with Linux see: http://www.dellideastorm.com/article/show/66081 In 2000 Dell supported and sold Linux (Red Hat 6.1) on everything they sold WIn98 on."The first major manufacturer to offer Linux across its full product line ... configurations of all Dell products are now designed, tested and certified for Linux"" to quote Michael Dell in his LinuxWorld keynote in 2000. What will more time accomplish? More backwards progress?
tokafatty 06/05/07	What most of you leaving comments here are failing to understand is that they are not refusing to warranty the hardware from defects. They are simply not offering CompleteCare protection from damage due to non-defect related incidents. If your hard drive takes a crap on you within the warranty period, they're going to replace it. If you drop the laptop from a 10th story balcony, they're not going to replace anything. Do I think they are wrong for refusing accidental damage coverage? Absolutely, they offer it on just about everything else. Would this keep me from buying a Dell with Ubuntu because of this? No - I've had my share of Dells and so have my friends and family (since I've been referring them to Dell), and neither I nor any of my friends and family have ever cashed in on the CompleteCare coverage. I'm just as likely to refuse the coverage myself anyway.
amandyke 06/05/07	cptdondo, If Dell is just a hardware vendor and they should "Sell hardware the way the customer wants" then why are you complaining about SOFTWARE support? Why should Dell have to support operating systems at all? That's simply a courtesy that they do not need to offer you. If you want support for software, how about you go to the company that made the software?
carlosponti 06/05/07	I can't believe they warranty windows on the hardware but wont on Linux. Does Old Tuxy run the hardware in a more vigorous fashion...I think not. I guess Dell cant seem to find out what their customers really want.
cptdondo 06/05/07	@amandyke: Either you misread my post, or I wasn't clear. In any case, you made my point exactly. I don't think Dell should make any distinction in hardware support when it comes to what software is running on the machine. In other words, back to the original issue: I buy laptop X, and I leave in on the roof of my car, then go down the highway and it falls off and gets run over by a truck. At great personal risk I sweep up the pieces and ship them back to Dell in a baggie. If the hard drive had Vista/XP, Dell will send me a new laptop. If the hard drive had Ubuntu, Dell will say, "Tough luck". Don't you see a double standard here? A subtle way of discouraging linux acceptance?
jmxz 06/05/07	tokafatty : You're the one with the misunderstanding. [edit - tokafatty didn't misunderstand] They stopped offering all hardware warranties >1 year for Linux. Since hardware warranties are typically profitable people suspect there must be some other reason for them to want to stop supporting Linux after 1 year. What reason that may be is anyone's guess.
tokafatty 06/05/07	I misunderstood nothing. I didn't address the extended hardware warranty. I am simply pointing out that the standard warranty still applies. Just about everybody commenting here seems to believe that if a piece of hardware dies within a couple of months that it won't be covered period, and that is simply not the case. Which, by the way, reminds me of my Samsung Blackjack with Cingular (ATT). It, along with every other smartphone they offer, is not eligible for their insurance plan.
captaintux 06/05/07	With all due respect, big companies can move that fast. They eliminated the offering in the dead of night. My wife is a director for a fortune 50 company and I have served in executive ranks for a few well known companies such as ADP, AT&T, and some lessor known companies. ;) The point? In corporate society we can move pretty swiftly when we have to and want to. I am not whining for whining sake. I am a member of the community. I am a part of the bazaar. As such, I have a vested interest in this succeeding and my fellow members of the bazaar to benefit as consumers. Dell has made a step in the right direction making Ubuntu PC's available. They made a step in the wrong direction changing this policy. That said, I have an update. I will be vocal when things are bad and I will be vocal when things are good. Todd did in fact forward the information up the food chain (he has my respect). I received a phone call from an executive in the resolution team by the name of Diane (she has my respect). She was very professional. She said she was unaware of the policy change. She discussed the issue with her peers and they do not understand the logic of this policy. She agrees that the OS does not have any bearing on hardware issues covered in the complete care (tm) offering. She is going to move further up the food chain to investigate this (along with the reduced normal warranty) and call me back later today. I am actually beginning to get hopeful here. I will say that no one at Dell that I have spoken with has been rude. They have all been professional, but I need to keep going up the chain until this can be offered to Ubuntu Dell consumers again. I will keep you all updated.
cptdondo 06/05/07	@captaintux: Great! Time for some positive reinforcement! I for one would view this as a very, very positive thing for Dell. If they do in fact change this policy, my opinion of Dell would certainly go up, way way up.
drakaan 06/05/07	@tokafatty While it's nice that the standard warranty still applies, why should someone who wants a Dell computer with Ubuntu as an OS be content to have any of the other extended hardware coverage unavailable? Since ideastorm is all about telling Dell what they should be doing to improve things for their customers, telling them "offer the same hardware coverage regardless of OS" seems appropriate, don't you think? You may not like the whining, and it's certainly true that a computer with Linux preinstalled could be purchased elsewhere, but it seems as if somehow you're forgetting the point of this forum...
captaintux 06/05/07	@tokafatty: You think we are whiney. It hit slashdot this morning. That is not what I wanted. Slashdot is about flame on...not resolution.
interval 06/05/07	@captaintux; you were expecting slashdot to jump into action and resolve the problem? @DELL: expand your customer base, support Linux. Farm the extra support if you want to, Ubuntu I'm sure would be willing to set something up with you. But back peddling on supporting Ubuntu systems for a bunch of spurious and nonsensical reasons just makes you look stupid. If you're so afraid that the return on investment for supporting Linux will be razor thin then farming out the support makes sense. Here's the thing: The cost of Windows is skyrocketing, and customers don't like to be treated like criminals. Also, the Windows Tax is starting to gall consumers everywhere. Buying a laptop pre-loaded with windows and having to pay the license fee on top of the MSRP is just bad press. I believe Linux is starting to look very attractive to a lot of folks.
captaintux 06/05/07	@interval Posting this saga on slashdot was not my idea or doing. The die is cast however. May all the people still bitter about not going to the prom flame on. Slashdot is a wonderful resource for information, but I tire of the snarky comments people make. They are generally not productive and snarky.
tokafatty 06/05/07	@drakaan: Explain to me where I said that you should be content without extended hardware coverage and CompleteCare. I never said that. The point of this forum is to give Dell ideas about what the customers want... @captaintux: ...But unfortunately, just as on Slashdot (@captaintux), there are several people here that don't bother to find out what the real issue is, or in Slashdot terms, don't bother to RTFA. If you're going to whine here about not getting extended hardware warranty and CompleteCare, that's fine by me, as I am in total agreement. My problem is the idiots who don't bother to find out that the standard 1-year warranty still applies, and continue whining that Dell is providing NO hardware support whatsoever, which again is simply not the case I simply pointed out that the standard 1-year warranty still applies to all those whining about NO hardware warranty, but I guess neither of you felt it necessary to take my post in it's entirety. Gee, I guess it really IS just like Shashdot here.
johnnymac 06/05/07	guys...so funny right, I've got a Dell Laptop with Ubuntu on it. I've had this (company) laptop since Warty was out and first thing I did was rip windows off and put linux on. Guess what....no matter what has happened to this thing it has still been under warranty. Granted, the only thing I've had to replace was the LCD Cover...but it was replaced. Isn't it funny that as soon as Dell starts selling Laptops installed with Ubuntu they start this hooie. Eh, goes to show....
linas 06/05/07	Whoever came up with this idea is a marketing nitwit. Stunts like this directly damage Dell's sales and income. I just bought a Dell ubuntu box for my wife & kids (ages 7 and 11; entering 2nd grade and 6th grade). It arrived a week ago, and has been a hit. The wobbly 3D windows from Beryl/Compiz have elicited wows; and the full 3D animated Google Earth provokes fighting for the mouse. The fact that the Adobe Flash Player crashes every 3-6 youtube videos sucks; this morning, the seven-year old was in tears because of this. The only missing piece of software so far is the "Cheat Engine", which is a near-pro-quaity disassembler/debugger that is all the rage for 5th graders, as it allows one to change game scores. So far, DDD is too clunky, and I haven't tried Eclipse. There: that summarizes it: an overall positive experience from a real-life family. I ordered the box a few days after they went on sale. If I had waited two weeks (which is what I was going to do), and had read the headline news that Dell won't provide hardware support, I probably would not have bought the box. This is stupidity, and even dumber to allow it to turn into headline news so that the whole world can read about it! Aim gun at foot, pull trigger. That's gotta hurt!
captaintux 06/05/07	tokafatty, I in no way showed disrespect of disparaged you in any way, shape or form. I am sorry you feel the way you do. The intent is not to divide with people here, but to express a valid concern in Dell policy. Cheers
djfake 06/05/07	Here's what my Dell Higher Ed rep had to say when I tried to order a Dell E520n with Ubuntu: "After much research, I determined that the Ubuntu versions are not available to higher ed customers for several reasons. As new units, we are not yet able to determine if Canonical can provide the support. Plus, there are production concerns. They are only available to U.S. consumers which means that you would not be able to purchase through the [sic] tax exempt customer number." So he offered me a quote for the FreeDOS version instead...
jmxz 06/05/07	djfake: Was your next question to him "So when will they be available to higher ed customers"?
captaintux 06/05/07	http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/06/05/17450.aspx
captaintux 06/05/07	johnnyk-way to get a mention in the announcement. Feather in your cap. ;)
jmxz 06/05/07	@interval wrote "9:46am @captaintux; you were expecting slashdot to jump into action and resolve the problem" Indeed slashdot did jump into action and resolved the problem! http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/06/05/17450.aspx Recently, folks like Slashdot and others reported that we are no longer offering extended warranties or CompleteCare on Ubuntu-based systems. User johnnyk submitted an idea on IdeaStorm asking us to bring back warranty options for these systems. The short answer—we will soon.
johnnyk 06/05/07	@captaintux Hah, thanks!
djfake 06/05/07	@jmxz: the response was... a quote for FreeDOS. He told me to purchase [ubuntu] as a consumer and pay sales tax.
dell_admin1 06/05/07	Due to an ordering system glitch over the weekend, we inadvertently removed the extended warranty and CompleteCare options associated with Ubuntu systems from our Web site. We’re working to get the issue resolved as quickly as possible. We expect to reinstate all extended warranty options and CompleteCare service for the E1505n notebook later this afternoon. Any orders placed to date will ship with the warranty the customer ordered. See today’s Direct2Dell post for more details and to share your thoughts: http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/06/05/17450.aspx.
makeiteasy 06/05/07	Wow. I was hoping to order one of these this week, but it sounds like it will be a while before Dell has any idea what it's doing. Guess I'll have to wait.
wolfwings 06/05/07	Thanks for the update, Dell. Glad this got resolved so quickly.
nukem 06/05/07	There is no reason not to offer the same hardware warranty for a Windows Machine or a Ubuntu Machine. The OS has no bearing on the hardware. It the hardware fails it's a hardware problem not an OS problem. Dell is obligated to offer the same hardware warranty to both OSes. It makes no sense to have it otherwise unless they are simply catering to Windows. I don't believe this to be the case and think that it was simply a glitch in their ordering system. I do think that Dell needs to make Ubuntu a little more obvious on their dell.com web site. It doesn't set well with anyone in the Open Source Community to have Ubuntu buried in the depths of Windowism. "Open-source PCs" is rather meaningless to folks who only know "Ubuntu" as a "Linux" OS not vaguely as "Open-Source PCs". "Linux Open-Source PCs" makes more sense. Dell, Please consider making the Ubuntu offering a bit more obvious so you'll do yourself and Ubuntu a favor and give it a chance to sell. Hiding it is a sure fire way to kill sales.
captaintux 06/05/07	To be fair to slashdot, though I do not like the content of many of the posters when they go into flame mode, they do apply pressure through awareness and have done so in many cases. I need to keep that in mind sometimes. I received a follow up call from Diane from Dell on my way home from work today. She told me that when I had called, the assumption was that marketing had made a decision. However, since she agreed with me, she was not in her words, "tell a customer who wants a service from us that he cannot have it based on a theory." She pushed my case up to a VP who got back to her ten minutes after they released the link regarding their explanation. I do not know why I was told what I was told in the initial call. Simple fact was, everyone was polite, everyone was professional, and they responded in my (and all Ubuntu buyers) favor. My new Dell is ordered and should be here soon. Today, they earned my money. I am glad to hand it over to them.
sting3r 06/06/07	I own a small business and have bought dell for quite some time....I recently received a dell that had issues with the NIC in ubuntu and simply called to touch base with their engineering team and they kept pushing me off and suggesting I get off of Ubuntu and move to RedHat. If I needed advice I would call a consultant. I have had other issues with dell like calling asking for a specific part which I knew was right for my laptop and even asked for the specific dell part number and had a 2 hour argument with support because they said it was the wrong part....well after they sent me the part they said was right it of course was wrong so I had to go through the battle again and finally said "hey just humor me and send me the part im asking for and if its wrong I will pay for shipping and the part myself....well it of course was the right part. I dont know what they expect to gain by making things difficult for their knowledgeable consumers...one would think they would cater to those users and send the others to the buffet line!
drakaan 06/06/07	@tokafatty (as to where you said (okay, implied) people should be content): "...I am simply pointing out that the standard warranty still applies. Just about everybody commenting here seems to believe that if a piece of hardware dies within a couple of months that it won't be covered period, and that is simply not the case..." Which, to me sounds like you think everybody should be fine with the standard warranty. I may well be wrong in my interpretation of that statemtnt, but if I'm incorrect, then I fail to understand why you commented at all. If you thought the standard warranty was enough, the comment makes sense as a response, but if you think the additional coverage should be available, then what were you trying to convey with that statement?
verbatim9 06/06/07	Nice to see that this issue has been resolved...it would be nice if Dell would put *Fixed* (or something similar) in the "response from Dell" area, where it currently says "none". I'd kept checking the suggestion here (but not the comments), and thought it hadn't been addressed until I ran across the story on Slashdot again, with the correction added.
jmxz 06/06/07	verbatim9: "Nice to see that this issue has been resolved...it would be nice if Dell would put *Fixed* (or something similar) in the "response from Dell" area, where it currently says "none"." Seems like "Under consideration" or "In progress" would be more fair. I don't see Complete Care anywhere on the Ubuntu order form now.
dell_admin1 06/06/07	Changed status to FIXED.
jmxz 06/06/07	Is it "FIXED"? I see nowhere[Edit ... yes it is fixed - I was looking in the wrong place]
johnnyk 06/07/07	Changed status to none.
dell_admin1 06/07/07	@johnnyk - why did you change the status to none? The issue is fixed. I changed it back to fixed. Thanks for editing the idea text, by the way! :)
johnnyk 06/07/07	@dell_admin1 - After I edited the idea text it was automatically changed back to none.
dell_admin1 06/08/07	@johnnyk - oh, ok. I thought maybe you were trying to send a message. :) I know about the status tag change issue... it's a bug in the application and we're working to get it fixed.
cosh 11/25/07	Working hard to get it fixed I see. Why, over five months later look at all the progress you've made......

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